- What was unfair?
- Who is to blame?
- Any modern comparisons? Current or recent scandals that have similar characteristics?
- What should have happened? Was the outcome just?
- How could you learn from this story? How could you avoid temptation (whatever that looks like for you) and address justice?
Monday, October 19, 2015
Eight Men Out (by 23 Oct)
Answer 1-3 questions of your choosing from below. Respond to at least 2 of your classmates' posts.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
The modern comparison is with Pete Rose. They are similar because they bet on the game of baseball, but Pete Rose bet on himself. Pete Rose did not "throw the game" to win money, he bet on himself, which made him perform at his best. There is a difference from throwing the game and betting on the game of baseball, or whatever sport it is.
ReplyDeleteI think the gamblers were the ones to blame, not the baseball players. On the core, it looks like the players are the main problem, but the gamblers were the main issue. The highest paid player in baseball at the time was Ty Cobb at $19,000 dollars a year. Although it is a lot back then, it equals to about $250,000 in our days. That is what the BEST player made then, compared to about $25,000,000 now. The players thought they deserved more, so the pro gamblers talked them into it. If I was in this situation, I would honestly do the same thing the players did (take the money).
I like the comparison between Pete Rose and the players. Its crazy how big of a difference the money has changed since the 1920's.
DeleteAlthough at this level it is a job, but how much do you think money changes sport? Do we still treat it as competition like we would when money isn't involved, or is it something bigger?
DeleteI think that this is a tremendous comparison, at the same time, it should be kept in mind that Pete Rose had other motives. He did not gamble due to salary issues or to motivate himself, he did it because he had a gambling problem.
DeleteThe gamblers just gave them an easy out. If they were making around $200,000 then they should have plenty of spending money back then especially. The players greed definitely leads to them being talked into the fix by the gamblers
DeleteI think there is a comparison in playing for a win and playing for a win with money. I feel like athletes would perform to their fullest potentials with money involved and push through whatever they have to in order to win with money. I think Pete Rose didn't just rely his life on gambling for salary issues, he had an addiction.
DeleteI agree with the statement that the gamblers should be blamed, not the ball players. There is a reason why gambling is wrong, it causes tension, it stresses out the players, and it can make people to crazy things just for money. But I can understand why they did what they did, they wanted more money.
DeleteI agree with the statement that the gamblers should be blamed, not the ball players. There is a reason why gambling is wrong, it causes tension, it stresses out the players, and it can make people to crazy things just for money. But I can understand why they did what they did, they wanted more money.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe amount of time these players put into baseball and their organization was outstanding. They were some of the better players at the time, yet they still did not get paid honorably. This is was unfair for them and their family.
ReplyDeleteI think their actions were justified. They were not to be blamed for their actions because of the unfair situation they were facing. Who is to be blamed? Either the gamblers or the head of the organization. Gamblers opened the doors for them and the head of the organization forced their hand.
Andy made a great comparison between Pete Rose and the players; I agree with this comparison. It gives us insight to the way we would think about the situation today.
So because the players were treated unfairly their actions were justified? Couldn't they have simply went to another team that offered a higher salary?
DeleteI see where you're coming from, but what does "paid honorably" mean for professional athletes? you see all the time these days where players get paid audacious amounts of money, but is that justified? The players seemed to be getting along fine. they had nicer looking apartments and houses. Its not like they were living in poverty.
DeleteI don't think that because they were treated unfairly gives the players the right to accept the money from the gamblers or agree to purposely throw the series. Agreeing with Jeff, the players were very well off it seemed or at least had stable living. They were still receiving money just not as much as they pleased or wanted to make after hearing the offer from the gambler causing nothing but selfishness and greed out of the players.
DeletePersonally I believe that everyone is to blame in this movie. Everyone from the players to the gamblers, and even the owner of the team had a part to play in this situation. If the players were granted their bonus than they probably wouldn't have looked for other means to gain the money that they feel they were entitled to. Personally I wouldn't have thrown the game simply because I hate losing and I can't knowingly and purposefully reduce my effort for a game that I love.
ReplyDeleteThere were many unfair aspects that were going on within the movie other than the players throwing the game. In my eyes the owner not granting the players their entitled bonus and using them as mere cattle was unfair in my eyes. Now even though this was unfair I do not believe it was right for the players to throw games in order to gain more money. This in my eyes takes away from the sport, but then again when money is involved everything changes. Also the players throwing the game is unfair to not just the organization, but to the other team as well. Both teams are supposed to challenge each other and fight for dominance. This cannot happen if one team is not giving their all.
How do you expect the players of an unfair organization, where they are treated poorly, to "challenge each other and fight for dominance"?
DeleteI agree that everyone in this movie is accountable and can be credited for being called to blame. I too am a very competitive player and would not be able to sit there and purposely accept defeat because I hate to lose. In every sport I played I thought effort was the most important thing because it showed passion for something you loved and were willing to work hard for so it made me sad to see these players throw the series away.
DeleteI agree with Michaela, everyone can be to blame. Effort is one of the most important thing you need to show passion in your sport, without effort why play? I could not accept defeat because losing is not acceptable for me. So in this case I do believe everyone is accountable. Both teams should challenge each other with their athleticism.
DeleteI agree with Gary, I just feel their are better more legal options to approaching changing the system, in my opinion they took a cowards way out.
DeleteWe can learn a lot from the "Black Sox Scandal". It goes to show that good people will do just about anything to keep themselves afloat when they think they do not have a choice. The team was playing well, and the fans were happy, that all an owner could ask for. It was ridiculous that the series bonus for the players was flat champagne. It is no suprise the players would follow the money trail. To avoid temptation, it is important to go somewhere or surround yourself with people that value your true value and do not try to undermine you.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I find this situation was unfair. That being said, there if a fine line between unfair and unjust. What the White Sox did was unfair but it was not unjust. They went against the rules, gambled, and threw the series. At the same time, they were being cheated by the owner and possessed the right motives to act out.
I respectfully disagree, while I do agree the owner treated his players badly, throwing a world series and the game they love is not the way to approach it could you imagine if a doctor decided to start failing surgeries on purpose?
DeleteI think that the players are to blame in all of this. This is not to say that everyone else is the good guy, but in the end everything comes down to the players. The gamblers offered the money and started to tempt the players. The owner was shrewd and a cheapskate, which furthered the temptation. When it's all said and done, however, the players should have stayed true to themselves and played the game they love. By taking the money for their own greedy motivations they threw away everything they worked for that season and betrayed the game they grew up playing and loving. Money can come and go, but your passions are what you really remember, sports or otherwise.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with you on this one Jeff. The owner lead the players to the gamblers, but ultimately the players made the decision to take the money and throw the series. I do not condone this behavior, they were still in the wrong, but I understand why they did it.
DeleteI agree that not just one player is the good guy. Baseball is a team sport and if someone messes up, everyone is somewhat to blame. Players should be aware of their teammates actions, because something that they do could jeopardize their career in long run.
DeleteI agree that the players are mostly to blame. It was wrong for the gamblers to pay players to "throw games", but the players are the ones on the field taking action. It is disrespectful to the game of baseball.
DeleteIn the film Eight Men Out both the gamblers and the players could be held accountable for the blame of the situation that took place, but in my opinion the players are slightly more to blame. I think this because the players are the ones agreeing with the gamblers and they were given a choice or option to accept the money or not. The owner was very successful in tempting the players, but the players should have remained loyal to the team and the game they love. The players were all well aware that accepting this money from the gamblers was highly restricted against regulations, but they continued through the process know it was wrong. At this level of play, these players have worked their entire lives to get to where they were and they all were willing to risk all they had worked for especially that season because of their selfishness and greed. Not only were they accepting money, but were also willing to betray their team and purposely lose the series. To avoid this from happening you should definitely surround yourself with people that are willing to face any temptation and have similar values as you that would not let greed and selfishness overpower the passion and love they have for a certain thing such as sports in this case. If I was in this situation, no matter what the consequences, I would not be able to accept the offer from the gamblers because I would feel extremely guilty and would never turn against my teammates for anything. It is a shame that when money is involved it can change a person tremendously. I also think it's unfair for gamblers to put the players through that situation showing anyone will do absolutely anything to get their way and to win by simply cheating.
ReplyDeleteIn the film Eight Men Out I feel like it the players are held accountable to blame. The players are the ones agreeing with the gamblers accepting money of their choice. The owner was very good at tempting the guys into accepting the gamble. Gambling was very illegal against the regulations but they continued to process it even though it was wrong.
ReplyDeleteI feel like the players have worked too hard to jeopardize accepting the money. They also were selfish and betrayed their team to lose the series. If I was in this situation I could not accept any money no matter how hard it would be too. When money or gaming is involved in a sport in can really turn an athlete into something their not, it depends on the person and who really cares about their game and who only cares about winning money and turning against their teammates.
I strongly agree when you say "when money is involved it can turn an athlete away from loving the game". These days, professional players think they can get aways with anything because maybe how good they are or just because they are getting paid for what they do. Getting paid shouldn't make you turn your love for the game away, but sadly that is what is happening. Some athletes really don't care for the sport anymore, they just want that big paycheck and that is truly sad.
DeleteYes I agree 100% with everything you said!!!!!!
DeleteIn the film Eight Men out, my opinion is that both the gamblers and the players are held accountable for the gambling and the illegal acts. The team really did not have a chance because of the guy who owned the team was very good at making them gamble. All along the team knew this was a wrongful act, but still proceeded to do it. They should accept the fact that what they were doing this whole time was illegal and something they shouldn't be doing. If I was in this position, I would not accept the money, because one, I knew it was wrong and it would also mean I am doing the wrong for my teammates. Accepting this money from the gamblers is selfish because they were not thinking about how this could potentially harm their teammates in the long run or even themselves. What should of happened, is the players play the game for the love not the money. Surrounding yourself with the players that are only there for the money, is not good because eventually you will be in the same position as them. To avoid this from happening in the future, the players need to either move to a team that has the players there for the game, not just the money. Also, check out the program to see in the gamblers are big about that one exact team so you know what you are getting yourself into. Even if these events do occur after joining a certain team, you should take actions against these acts. Just letting them happen if front of you will not help anyone or anything. So be the bigger person and at least try to put a stop to these illegal acts.
ReplyDeleteIn this film, there were plenty of people that could've been blamed; the players, the gamblers, the owner, they were all in the wrong. However, in my opinion, the ones to blame the most would be the players. Baseball was their job, they got payed, not as much as they wanted, but they got payed to play at their best ability. They knew that taking the money and purposely throwing games was wrong, but they did it anyway. This shouldn't have happened. The athletes should've respected the game, their fans, their teammates, and themselves more to know this was an awful idea to get themselves involved with. The love for the game should've been enough to keep them from engaging in the illegal acts.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you when you say "the athletes should've respected the game." It is a privilege to have the opportunity to play sports. I realize they need to make money, but it is wrong to make money unethically.
DeleteIn the film Eight Men Out, the players and the gamblers are to blame. The gamblers shouldn't have involved the players, but the players made the mistake of agreeing to throw the games. It is unethical to lose baseball games on purpose. Baseball should be played with passion, as well as every sport. It is a privilege to play a sport, that's why I feel the players are to blame for the most part. I understand that they want more money, but it is wrong to lose a game on purpose. Personally, I couldn't live with myself if I threw a game for money.
ReplyDeleteFirst and formost this was unfair to the game of baseball and anyone who considere themselves a fan of the game. The owner was unjust, but that does not give the players the right to hurt the game so many people love! The owner shouldn't view his players as cattle, but the players are to blame to giving into such a temptation when they have spent their entire lives defying the odds in order to get into the position they are currently at. I've learned from this story to think before I act. One day if im faced with such a temptation I will think about all the people my actions hurt rather then just me and my family. Those players hurt baseball, their owner, their families, their fans, and themselves.
ReplyDeleteI think that the gamblers and the players are both to be at blame for this whole scandal. The gamblers certainly started the issue by placing the bets in the first place, but the players did not help by egging it on and wanting more money than they already had. I think that gambling has led into a bigger issue now than it has in the passed, even though it is against the law to gamble, people still do it and it ruins their lives. It is more shown now because with the economy the way it is, people want a way to get fast money. It is also a negative because people can get addicted to gambling, which has horrible consequences.
ReplyDeleteI have learned that gambling is wrong and it can put your life and your loved ones lives on the line. One of the main characters, Ring Lardner was threatened to have his wife killed if he did not through the game. Either way he went, if he chose-to play the game with the best of his ability or if he chose to throw the game- he was in trouble. In trouble of losing his job or in risk of losing his wife. This shows me that gambling can have many negative consequences. Is it really worth losing your livelihood for some extra cash?
In the film eighth men out the players and gamblers who coerced the others into throwing the game are the ones to be blamed the most. The owner of the team indirectly should take some blame for how poorly he treated the players. Its sad that some of the players threw away the game they love for more money but they felt they had to what they had to do to put money on the table. It was clear that some were very remorseful for their actions because towards the end of the series. Buck, who never took a dime. should have never been punished for his actions.
ReplyDelete